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2022年5月23日星期一
Thread by @Aiaddict1 on Thread Reader App
2022年5月12日星期四
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2022年5月11日星期三
China to End Big Tech Regulation and Support Big Tech
China to End Big Tech Regulation and Support Big Tech
China is scheduled to have a symposium with the country's Big Tech firms on the heels of the Politburo meeting on Friday, raising hopes that Beijing will stop its sweeping regulatory clampdown on the tech sector and give internet platforms larger roles to help prop up the ailing economy, according to two sources briefed on the situation.
The symposium has been set for after the Labour Day holiday, which lasts from Saturday to Wednesday this year, to assure business executives that regulators will no longer demand rectifications or impose surprise fines, two people, who declined to be named as the briefings were private, told the South China Morning Post.
The country's major Big Tech players, including e-commerce platform Alibaba Group Holding, social media and video gaming giant Tencent Holdings, online delivery and on-demand service platform Meituan, and TikTok owner ByteDance, are all invited. Alibaba is the owner of the Post.
The key message to tech companies is that the state wants them to grow and play a role in Beijing's efforts to bolster an economy battered by Covid-19 controls, such as through the distribution of consumption vouchers, according to one source.
So, what China Big Tech you gonna be buying? Personally: BABA, PDD, DIDI, TCEHY. Also, of course KWEB. You gonna get in on this KWEB Bull?
Comment as Main-Measurement-861level 2Yes, only part 5 or so. Because the average retail investor can't keep track of how many times China has done this.
63level 2If anything, I'd buy the US tech they're going to rely on to build out more infrastructure for servers and storage.
3level 2Just putting this in here but if you look at OPs history, kinda makes me think they're a little biased in favor of China...
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level 1No thank you. Between Europe and the states I have more than enough options
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level 1I am buying nothing because what CCP says and what CCP does is a big difference.
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level 2...and even if they do as they say...for how long? One or the other of those companies is going to make some CEO filthy rich and that will endanger their power position yet again. Then they will just (have to) clamp back down.
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level 3"For how long?"…..well, for as long as Jack Ma and the other CEO's don't need any more re-education from the CCP.
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level 3Yep, exactly why I will no longer invest in Chinese stocks. Sold my positions late last year and no regrets.
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level 3The difference here is that Xi no longer thinks of big tech as the "fake economy." The clampdown was started with the idea that technology was not a real part of the economy like home construction and automobile manufacturing.
We've heard this one before right? "Durrrr bring back the manufacturing jorbs!"
Well it turns out that technology is a pretty great thing to backstop your economy when your real estate sector goes to shit! So I doubt another clampdown is coming during Xi's reign. But the next guy? Who knows. China seems to be being ruled by increasingly incapable / incompetent leaders.
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level 4China seems to be being ruled by increasingly incapable / incompetent leaders.
This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read about China.
People talk a lot of shit, but to pretend they are incompetent when they are killing it in basically any metric you can point at is beyond the pale.
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level 5Except for human rights, which certain Chinese tech CEOs have become keenly aware of.
0level 6Genocide, right? Yeah, show me a body and then we'll talk. Until then, you need to explain why the Uyghur language is on the RMB notes and street signs and why there is a greater density of mosques per Capita than in any non-majority Muslim country on earth.
That genocide, as far as the actual evidence I have seen, is basically non-existent.
-2level 7I never even mentioned that, buddy. Interesting you want to jump to that point. What I am referring, and which is undeniably visible, is China's contempt for CEOs with any "star-power", as witnessed with Jack Ma's sudden and dramatic "re-education".
1level 8That's your bar for human rights? One CEO who was breaking laws spelled out in the Chinese constitution?
-2level 9So enshrining a lack of free speech in a constitution makes it kosher and therefore not a violation of human rights? You are missing the forest for the trees buddy. Imagine BMW's CEO being arrested because they said Merkel is a dumb hag with a lazy eye, it's absurd and disgusting.
0level 10Seriously, who talks like that? "Hey, buddy!"
It's not enshrining anti-free speech, it's preserving the work of a revolution that cost 10s of millions of lives. Anti-revolutionary speech and actions are expressly forbidden. It makes sense if you even spend 5 minutes understanding what happened there and what continues to happen there.
That's not what Ma said. Ma said something more like "we should rearrange our society to transfer wealth from the working class to people like myself.". It was not something petty like "Xi is ugly."
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level 5You're right.
Uighurs, Blacks, pets in Shanghai, homeless Chinese, free speech, crypto, the housing market. I'm sure there are a lot I'm forgetting...
All have either been killed recently or are in the process of being killed. Wonderful choice of words!
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level 5Besides their precarious housing market and the Chinese government prevented people from selling their homes because they knew their real estate asset bubble would pop. There are far too many quality businesses outside of China that are far better options than a Chinese stock.
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level 4The crackdown wasn't even a crackdown. They literally did what other governments did against Big Tech like Amazon, Google, Apple, Facebook etc and yet everyone freaked out
6level 5Literally BABA got threatened with regulation and fined $2B this caused their share price to divide by 3. They are now priced near IPO despite making 10x the revenue.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/BABA/alibaba/revenue
8level 6Ya and American Big Tech companies get fined all the time by the American government and European governments
10level 6BABA got fined for antitrust practices where they were preventing merchants from selling on other platforms. If this was Amazon people would be praising the shit out of the US government but since it's China people say "CCP BAD!!!". Then when you call them out on their stupid bullshit they defer to human right's arguments which has nothing to do with tech regulation.
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level 2I think it is in their best interest to say and do this. For now. Things can quickly change.
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level 2Came here to say the same. Perhaps some new investors will fall for this smoke screen but I have seen countless times where the CCP talks out of both sides of their mouth in the same sentence.
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level 2I disagree, still wouldn't buy but for different reasons. When it comes to the economy, they generally follow through. People not trusting what they say is exactly why they were so surprised when they banned private tutoring. Months before they started clamping down on big tech they talked about it. Common prosperity and the like. China may play when it comes to integrity, human rights, or geopolitics; but when it comes to economic growth they don't mess around.
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level 2OP
+2·12 days agoThey're pressed against the wall, though. They can't grow at 5.5% like they want without doing something and they don't wanna go back to their old playbook of massive monetary stimulus and local government debt financed infrastructure.
Making their GDP growth target is the key priority. Losing Face by admitting that certain agencies were over zealous in applying relevant regulations is a small price to pay to not miss their growth target.
If you don't believe the CPC then you'll have to present an argument how they're going to get to 5.5% Growth without using their old playbooks.
9level 3As simple as they get to their ridiculously low Covid numbers in the first 2 waves, fake them like the inflation number of 2.08% as well.
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level 4Inflation is low there because you can't buy anything there cause many people are massively unemployed + locked down due to zero covid policy. Can't have inflation when everyones broke. 200 IQ play. /s
21level 5If they let COVID take its due course, millions of people are going to die, and that's what you suggest?
1level 4OP+2·12 days agoAs someone who lives in China - Inflation is low. Like, do you think China is experiencing inflation anything like other places at 10% or something? Biggest increase has been petrol. Everything else has been modest.
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level 5Inflation is low in China because people aren't buying anything. There's no aggregate demand. Everyone is saving their money because they can't travel and business has slowed down, so those who still are making money are saving it for a rainy day. (As someone who also lives in China)
16level 6OP+2·12 days agoInflation is about 3.5% in China. Inflation has been lower than that these years, closer to 2.5%...So, yeah... Inflation is lower than normal because of weak overall macroeconomy.
0level 7You don't actually believe the data? Like that with lockdowns this year the real GDP will still increase 4.8%? The data means nothing here.
5level 8OP+2·12 days agoHuh? Growth targets are nominal GDP not real GDP and it's at 5.5 so not sure where you're getting 4.8% But, in general, yeah I trust Chinese data.
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level 5Comment removed by moderator·12 days agolevel 4Haha i forgot about that.
that was hilarious.
Although this obvious stock manipulation is just as funny IMO
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level 1Nah, fuck em. Not touching that garbage ever again regardless of how good the business is.
With equities all around the world dropping, why buy in the one spot that doesn't give 2 shits about investor (or human) rights.
The CCP played itself.
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level 2Not to mention they are killing their own economy with archaic covid lockdowns that are proven not to work when there is a endless supply of vaccines out there that they refuse to touch. GL China
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level 4OP+2·12 days agoChina is vaccinating. Rates are in the upper 80% except for the elderly which are like 60%.
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level 5They are vaccinated but the problem is they are using the traditional vaccines which sucks against any mutations in covid-19. U might get immune to alpha variant or beta but you'd have to get vaccinated all again for delta, omicron, etc.. that's why getting vaccinated in china is kinda useless.
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level 6Well Moderna/Pfizer aren't that great against Omicron either. 54% last I checked. So I'm not sure where the big difference is.
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level 7I had 2x sinovac in China and 2x pfizer in Germany and got a mild omikron case in the end.
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level 3[deleted]·12 days agoThose lockdowns are anything but not archaic. This is literately never done before on this scale.
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+2·12 days ago·edited 12 days agoArchaic from 2020 when we didn't have vaccines or an understanding of how covid works so I disagree. I mean whatever this is going to put a serious hurt on them for years to come and there is no reason for it it's unnecessary there are much better options available now but if this is how they chose to move forward and the way they punished investors over the last couple of years I will never invest another penny in that country. You can do what you want but as for me that's a big nope.
I would go as far as to say China is an unreliable link in the supply chain and we should be looking for ways around it, immediately
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level 5Talking about alternative supply chains besides Chinga, as he types on a computer that is probably 95% Made in China, likely sitting in a chair of the same designation, along with 70-80% of the other things in his house - if not more.
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level 2OP+2·12 days agolevel 1The damage is done. No one wants to invest in China at this point considering how long and intransparent the interference of the CCP has been. EM sentiment is low anyway in addition due to Russia. The CCP now really shows signs of cluelessness. "Oh no, we have damaged our economy by our actions and the reputation of our companies world wide."
71level 1I will probably wait and see for the next couple of days. See what's the end goal or the summary. The risks involving China is high. However, even if the summary is good, most stocks will probably rise 20-35% in value within the next couple of days. If the company is really great, i think the opportunity to buy even more in the future, still remains the same. So I will just hold on my cash now. I don't think I will be missing out on anything.
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level 1Man they litterally can pump a company worth hundred of billions just saying. "Trust us we will be nice now." I love it.
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level 1This sub hating China no matter what happens until prices rise?
I would have never guessed
"Just by more voo"
Ugh this place is tiring. But 5% is really good insights
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level 1Have you seen the Chinese economy, shanghai in lockdown, Beijing to follow soon. No way these companies are making money. This symposium is "stimulus" without actually spending money
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level 1China - "Trust me bro, we support Big Tech"
Reddit laps this shit up
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level 2Judging from the top voted comments, redditors remain bearish. And they will continue to be bearish until the price recovers. Reddit's general sentiment about a company's prospects is based on the stock price and nothing more.
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level 3Reddit sentiments are all about rear view bias
Stocks go up - "told you so! hahaha dumb bears never win! to the moon baby!"
Stocks go down - "told you so! hahaha saw that bull trap from a mile away! should've sold while you had the chance!"
Reddit will be bull on Chinese stocks again when it's at all time high.
This is why you do the opposite of Reddit for investment advice.
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level 4My favorite is the posts from people saying "Never invest in China" while they are actually invested in a bunch of American companies that are heavily dependent on China like Apple, Nike, Boeing and soon Tesla.
3level 2Every comment in here is negative sentiment, there has been almost nothing but negative sentiment towards china for the last 6+ months. Are you stupid?
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level 2Seeing how everyone here is actually being bearish, I'd say it's a buy
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level 4100%.
Fundamentally a lot of companies in China are looking amazing. I sure as hell wouldn't short them.
I just don't want to ever own them because I could get fucked overnight with zero recourse by the CCP.
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level 5Yeah same, morally i dont want to either so that makes a lot of reasons why not, even if by other metrics its a good idea.
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level 1This is exactly the reason you should not invest in china. One day ccp decides to crack down on tech, three months later they deregulate.
I refuse to let my portfolio be goverbed by how xi is feeling when he gets up in the morning.
26level 2One day US electorate wakes up and decides they want a democrat and weed and clean energy boom....
Next day they want a Republican and private prisons booms....
One day Putin wakes up and decides to invade Ukraine. Oil booms...
One day senate wakes up and decides MSFT is a monopoly it goes boom...
Don't invest in anything because somebody may change their policies.
3level 32 points here:
You over estimate american politics' ability to actually agree enough on anything to actually form a policy.
At least putin isnt WAR, no PEACE, NO WAR. And you know what youre working with. With xi, every day could be a new day.
Its about frequency, not the fact that they change policies. Not a year ago they decided to regulate tech. And now theyre deregulating already
2level 1China to End Big Tech Regulation and Support Big Tech
Wrong. Should read:
China to pump Big Tech again and support wealth transfer.
Only idiots are buying China. I'd rather make less money here than "buy" china stock.
15level 1Too many good US stocks at a discount right now, I hope the CCP pumps some more because my Nio bags are heavy but I'm not betting another dollar on them
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level 1I have enough china exposure through my emerging markets index fund
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level 4Ghana, ivory coast, DRA, thailand, indonesia, Vietnam. Brasil. Loads of star potential there.
5level 5On the real though, Ghana, Indonesia and Vietnam are on the come-up.
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level 1Fucking China man. They change their minds so often I can see this being reversed in 6 months. Just like how they banned Bitcoin like 6 times.
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level 1Is China also adopting a rules based government and dropping the whole authoritarian, "we will disappear you" shtick?
3level 2lol of course not. Therefore these supposed changes mean nothing because they can, and probably will, be reversed with no notice whenever Xi feels like he needs to flex on Chinese billionaires again.
I'm done investing in China, they've proven they can't be trusted
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level 1Misleading title. The body of you message does t match the title. You say China will stop big tech regulation, but the body of your message says they are meeting to talk about regulations with The HOPE of ending regulation.
2level 1Even if they never have a single non-Chinese customer, the TAM for companies like BABA, Baidu, and JD remains enormous. And regardless of whatever CCP does, I don't see how any new competitor for these will emerge.
2level 2They should never have been allowed on the basis they dont let us enter their markets freely. Im sure there were plenty of traitors receiving bribes for us to ever have even gotten to this kind of situation over the years.
5level 1Looking at people in Reddit hating Chinese stocks with all about how bad CCP is, instead of fundamentals of the company. Conclusion: It's a great buy.
8level 2Sometimes that's all you need to know when the country can siphon money out of a business anytime with coerced "donation" or an arbitrary fine anytime. Never mind if it's a good business. Mafia leave you not dying, but not quite surviving either.
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level 2A lot of them ARE great fundamentally.
Still not touching them. You have zero rights or assurances and will be fully subject to the whims of Xi.
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level 2I can make money without selling my soul. Sure corporations as a whole do some shady things. But china is on a whole different level. I don't need them
2level 1It is just me or more lockdowns are coming? Good news don't come just like this. Dont take me wrong I've a big position in China and already "made" some money. I plan to expand my position in the future but I way until the covid hits.
3level 1It's definitely not a good sign that the CCP is being so mercurial on big tech. It wasn't that long ago that they announced they were going to be cracking down even harder on it, now they're trying to ease up? They must really be desperate.
Fuck China though, I'm done investing in any Chinese companies. You've already proven you can't be trusted. Any country that can on a whim fuck over millions of investors with no recourse is a terrible place to invest
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level 1Since they last sent this same message, they cracked down on tech less than a week later.
That was a month ago.
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level 1Fuck Chinese stocks, these bastards have stolen enough from investors
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level 1And on top of that, the US trade envoy to China announced the US govt are dropping trade tariffs on Chinese goods (which had been introduced by Trump) in order to help reduce inflation.
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level 1How misleading could be this title.
It writes "China to End" and I'm thinking, wow that's some great news.
And I start reading and sayd there will be a meeting and this "raising hopes" to end the crackdown.
If whoever wrote this, cannot distinguish the difference between "somethings ends" and "raising hopes to end" then we have a big problem with our journalists.
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level 1Have you seen what they are doing to their people in the lock downs?
0level 2OP+2·12 days agoI'm in China. I know exactly what is going on. What does that have to do with policy support for Chinese Big Tech?
People have really derailed this thread…
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level 3Can't mention or have a healthy discussion in reddit about china though. Sadly. Too many people fishing for upvotes by just saying china bad. Still money to be made there imo. But ofc. Gotta do some DD and be aware of risks, just like in any market
7level 3I wouldn't put a dime in China. Considering they are communist and treat their people and the Uyghurs inhumanely.
-2level 4Ooo boy, I sure hope you don't hold any of the major S&P companies who operate in China to reap the benefits of those sweet human rights violations
7level 3Bro everyone knows that you can't invest in a company unless you agree with everything the government of that country does /s
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level 1I'm buying more baba! This is great news, but if you want to make money
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+1·12 days ago·edited 12 days agolevel 1Imagine they reverse their decision on btc only to have been accumulating this whole time lmao
1level 1I've an alternative investment to China. You see, in a series of rather unfortunate events I'm now the owner of this toll bridge....
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level 1Don't care. Never touching Chinese stocks until the day it's no longer a one-party country.
1level 1It should really come as no surprise. China wants to dominate technology and be the economic superpower.
0level 1[deleted]·12 days agoThe risk doesn't just go away because they have decided to pivot. The risk is permanent now because they have demonstrated that they can and will crack down at a moments notice. I don't know. It's a risky long term play with potentially huge upside, but I'd imagine it's going to be years until Chinese stocks don't trade at a discount to what their free market valuation would be. I've been considering BABA or just MCHI for a while.
1level 1Sadly the damage has been done. By simply threatening big tech, most investors will steer clear. Stupid leadership by CCP, threatening your own economy was one of the dumbest things they could've done.
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level 1None. You can't trust the CCP. Also why support China given all it does wrong?
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level 1I've read this twice in this year. I'm not reading this a third time.
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level 1Fool me once. Well that's enough fooling. I'm not falling for your bs China.
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level 1All China jokes aside, it would be nice if we did the same rather than try to fine and break up our tech firms.
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level 1haha i dont believe the ccp and xi a word, this can change any second
I will not invest a cent in a market that can be manipulated by a dictator at any time
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level 1Nothing, I enjoy making money not throwing it down a bottomless hole which is what investing in a CCP controlled stockmarket is.
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level 1Looks like their batshit insane zero COVID policy is taking its toll.
1level 1Before investing in Chinese stocks ask yourself one question, can the Chinese government be trusted to stop kicking the shit out of companies like Alibaba and Didi? IMHO, the answer is a resounding NO.
1level 1They end regulation until the company does something they don't like and then suddenly, bam a crackdown. I wouldn't trust China with any of my money. I mean looked what happened to Ma. One moment he's on top of the world. The next, he just more or less disappears.
1level 1I'm done with China. Investing in China made me root for them and their economy, I'm not interested in rooting for the prosperity of a communist country.
1level 1Fool me once, shame on ... shame on you ! You fool me .. you can't get fooled again !
But yeah, ended up being a BABA bagholder - sold at a big loss. FU China. Not coming back.
1level 1Nah I'll never invest in china if I can avoid it. Risk is to high. Who the hell knows what china will have decided or done this time next year.
1level 1At this point, is China any more reliable than North Korea when it comes to their words?
1level 2I mean China has been very reliable in some areas when it comes to the words. China told DiDi NOT to list and it did. Look what happens. China says it will change the private tutoring landscape because it hurts its people; China then proceeded a few months later destroying private for profit tutoring firms. China tells it will crackdown on big tech; then it does. China claims it is near end of big tech crackdown; now Xi says personally the tech crackdown is done.
If anything, Western investors (including us) are extremely naive to try to hand wave what China says. If China says "X", then it IS X. No hand wavey or whatever. Zero covid policy? Then zero covid policy it is (dumb policy for 2022). And so on.
2level 1China should tell their hand-puppet putin to calm down with nuclear rhetoric. Because if putin will fire nukes, no-one will need chinese tech.
1level 1"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." GW
1level 1We pinky promise this time guys, really. Ignore this happening on an almost weekly basis.
1level 1So NIO and XPEV going back up? I'd love to close those fucking positions
1level 1some of these chinese tech company stocks have had a lot of calls flow into them even when the market is going to shit
1level 1I'm 100% all-in China tech now, Chinese Yuan to USD just hit 1 year low, the government is going to stimulate to reach the 5.5% GDP goal. They have already experienced a 2-year de-leveraging of real estate and consumer debt, resulting in one of the worst stock market performances of all time.
While in the west we are just beginning the deleveraging cycle. China stocks today are what oil stocks were in 2020
1level 1The very moment the CCP feels threatened by these companies again is the day they nuke them again. Xi thanks greedy westerners chasing a few shekels and then repeatedly robbing them.
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level 1Let you to invest I'm in here. No need for me to delve into some foreign feudalistic bullshit when there's plenty of ways to loose money closer to home in industries that I can actually read the reports in my own language.
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level 2to loose money
*lose
Learn the difference here.
Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply !optout to this comment.
1level 3Just clumsy thumbs bot, go back and play with your Russian friends
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level 1If they used a vaccine that worked, that might help support their tech slaves. But you can't argue with fascist authoritarians.
0level 1Big money to be made off Chinese stocks some day, but I'm waiting until there are no more videos of people in white hazmat suits throwing other people into cages. Doesn't convey a lot of confidence in the market.
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China is scheduled to have a symposium with the country's Big Tech firms on the heels of the Politburo meeting on Friday, raising hopes that Beijing will stop its sweeping regulatory clampdown on the tech sector and give internet platforms larger roles to help prop up the ailing economy, according to two sources briefed on the situation.
The symposium has been set for after the Labour Day holiday, which lasts from Saturday to Wednesday this year, to assure business executives that regulators will no longer demand rectifications or impose surprise fines, two people, who declined to be named as the briefings were private, told the South China Morning Post.
The country's major Big Tech players, including e-commerce platform Alibaba Group Holding, social media and video gaming giant Tencent Holdings, online delivery and on-demand service platform Meituan, and TikTok owner ByteDance, are all invited. Alibaba is the owner of the Post.
The key message to tech companies is that the state wants them to grow and play a role in Beijing's efforts to bolster an economy battered by Covid-19 controls, such as through the distribution of consumption vouchers, according to one source.
So, what China Big Tech you gonna be buying? Personally: BABA, PDD, DIDI, TCEHY. Also, of course KWEB. You gonna get in on this KWEB Bull?
Yes, only part 5 or so. Because the average retail investor can't keep track of how many times China has done this.
If anything, I'd buy the US tech they're going to rely on to build out more infrastructure for servers and storage.
Just putting this in here but if you look at OPs history, kinda makes me think they're a little biased in favor of China...
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No thank you. Between Europe and the states I have more than enough options
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I am buying nothing because what CCP says and what CCP does is a big difference.
...and even if they do as they say...for how long? One or the other of those companies is going to make some CEO filthy rich and that will endanger their power position yet again. Then they will just (have to) clamp back down.
"For how long?"…..well, for as long as Jack Ma and the other CEO's don't need any more re-education from the CCP.
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Yep, exactly why I will no longer invest in Chinese stocks. Sold my positions late last year and no regrets.
The difference here is that Xi no longer thinks of big tech as the "fake economy." The clampdown was started with the idea that technology was not a real part of the economy like home construction and automobile manufacturing.
We've heard this one before right? "Durrrr bring back the manufacturing jorbs!"
Well it turns out that technology is a pretty great thing to backstop your economy when your real estate sector goes to shit! So I doubt another clampdown is coming during Xi's reign. But the next guy? Who knows. China seems to be being ruled by increasingly incapable / incompetent leaders.
China seems to be being ruled by increasingly incapable / incompetent leaders.
This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read about China.
People talk a lot of shit, but to pretend they are incompetent when they are killing it in basically any metric you can point at is beyond the pale.
Except for human rights, which certain Chinese tech CEOs have become keenly aware of.
Genocide, right? Yeah, show me a body and then we'll talk. Until then, you need to explain why the Uyghur language is on the RMB notes and street signs and why there is a greater density of mosques per Capita than in any non-majority Muslim country on earth.
That genocide, as far as the actual evidence I have seen, is basically non-existent.
I never even mentioned that, buddy. Interesting you want to jump to that point. What I am referring, and which is undeniably visible, is China's contempt for CEOs with any "star-power", as witnessed with Jack Ma's sudden and dramatic "re-education".
That's your bar for human rights? One CEO who was breaking laws spelled out in the Chinese constitution?
So enshrining a lack of free speech in a constitution makes it kosher and therefore not a violation of human rights? You are missing the forest for the trees buddy. Imagine BMW's CEO being arrested because they said Merkel is a dumb hag with a lazy eye, it's absurd and disgusting.
Seriously, who talks like that? "Hey, buddy!"
It's not enshrining anti-free speech, it's preserving the work of a revolution that cost 10s of millions of lives. Anti-revolutionary speech and actions are expressly forbidden. It makes sense if you even spend 5 minutes understanding what happened there and what continues to happen there.
That's not what Ma said. Ma said something more like "we should rearrange our society to transfer wealth from the working class to people like myself.". It was not something petty like "Xi is ugly."
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You're right.
Uighurs, Blacks, pets in Shanghai, homeless Chinese, free speech, crypto, the housing market. I'm sure there are a lot I'm forgetting...
All have either been killed recently or are in the process of being killed. Wonderful choice of words!
Besides their precarious housing market and the Chinese government prevented people from selling their homes because they knew their real estate asset bubble would pop. There are far too many quality businesses outside of China that are far better options than a Chinese stock.
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The crackdown wasn't even a crackdown. They literally did what other governments did against Big Tech like Amazon, Google, Apple, Facebook etc and yet everyone freaked out
Literally BABA got threatened with regulation and fined $2B this caused their share price to divide by 3. They are now priced near IPO despite making 10x the revenue.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/BABA/alibaba/revenue
Ya and American Big Tech companies get fined all the time by the American government and European governments
BABA got fined for antitrust practices where they were preventing merchants from selling on other platforms. If this was Amazon people would be praising the shit out of the US government but since it's China people say "CCP BAD!!!". Then when you call them out on their stupid bullshit they defer to human right's arguments which has nothing to do with tech regulation.
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I think it is in their best interest to say and do this. For now. Things can quickly change.
Came here to say the same. Perhaps some new investors will fall for this smoke screen but I have seen countless times where the CCP talks out of both sides of their mouth in the same sentence.
I disagree, still wouldn't buy but for different reasons. When it comes to the economy, they generally follow through. People not trusting what they say is exactly why they were so surprised when they banned private tutoring. Months before they started clamping down on big tech they talked about it. Common prosperity and the like. China may play when it comes to integrity, human rights, or geopolitics; but when it comes to economic growth they don't mess around.
+2·12 days agoThey're pressed against the wall, though. They can't grow at 5.5% like they want without doing something and they don't wanna go back to their old playbook of massive monetary stimulus and local government debt financed infrastructure.
Making their GDP growth target is the key priority. Losing Face by admitting that certain agencies were over zealous in applying relevant regulations is a small price to pay to not miss their growth target.
If you don't believe the CPC then you'll have to present an argument how they're going to get to 5.5% Growth without using their old playbooks.
As simple as they get to their ridiculously low Covid numbers in the first 2 waves, fake them like the inflation number of 2.08% as well.
Inflation is low there because you can't buy anything there cause many people are massively unemployed + locked down due to zero covid policy. Can't have inflation when everyones broke. 200 IQ play. /s
If they let COVID take its due course, millions of people are going to die, and that's what you suggest?
+2·12 days agoAs someone who lives in China - Inflation is low. Like, do you think China is experiencing inflation anything like other places at 10% or something? Biggest increase has been petrol. Everything else has been modest.
Inflation is low in China because people aren't buying anything. There's no aggregate demand. Everyone is saving their money because they can't travel and business has slowed down, so those who still are making money are saving it for a rainy day. (As someone who also lives in China)
+2·12 days agoInflation is about 3.5% in China. Inflation has been lower than that these years, closer to 2.5%...So, yeah... Inflation is lower than normal because of weak overall macroeconomy.
You don't actually believe the data? Like that with lockdowns this year the real GDP will still increase 4.8%? The data means nothing here.
+2·12 days agoHuh? Growth targets are nominal GDP not real GDP and it's at 5.5 so not sure where you're getting 4.8% But, in general, yeah I trust Chinese data.
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Haha i forgot about that.
that was hilarious.
Although this obvious stock manipulation is just as funny IMO
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Nah, fuck em. Not touching that garbage ever again regardless of how good the business is.
With equities all around the world dropping, why buy in the one spot that doesn't give 2 shits about investor (or human) rights.
The CCP played itself.
Not to mention they are killing their own economy with archaic covid lockdowns that are proven not to work when there is a endless supply of vaccines out there that they refuse to touch. GL China
+2·12 days agoChina is vaccinating. Rates are in the upper 80% except for the elderly which are like 60%.
They are vaccinated but the problem is they are using the traditional vaccines which sucks against any mutations in covid-19. U might get immune to alpha variant or beta but you'd have to get vaccinated all again for delta, omicron, etc.. that's why getting vaccinated in china is kinda useless.
Well Moderna/Pfizer aren't that great against Omicron either. 54% last I checked. So I'm not sure where the big difference is.
I had 2x sinovac in China and 2x pfizer in Germany and got a mild omikron case in the end.
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Those lockdowns are anything but not archaic. This is literately never done before on this scale.
+2·12 days ago·edited 12 days agoArchaic from 2020 when we didn't have vaccines or an understanding of how covid works so I disagree. I mean whatever this is going to put a serious hurt on them for years to come and there is no reason for it it's unnecessary there are much better options available now but if this is how they chose to move forward and the way they punished investors over the last couple of years I will never invest another penny in that country. You can do what you want but as for me that's a big nope.
I would go as far as to say China is an unreliable link in the supply chain and we should be looking for ways around it, immediately
Talking about alternative supply chains besides Chinga, as he types on a computer that is probably 95% Made in China, likely sitting in a chair of the same designation, along with 70-80% of the other things in his house - if not more.
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+2·12 days agoThe damage is done. No one wants to invest in China at this point considering how long and intransparent the interference of the CCP has been. EM sentiment is low anyway in addition due to Russia. The CCP now really shows signs of cluelessness. "Oh no, we have damaged our economy by our actions and the reputation of our companies world wide."
I will probably wait and see for the next couple of days. See what's the end goal or the summary. The risks involving China is high. However, even if the summary is good, most stocks will probably rise 20-35% in value within the next couple of days. If the company is really great, i think the opportunity to buy even more in the future, still remains the same. So I will just hold on my cash now. I don't think I will be missing out on anything.
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Man they litterally can pump a company worth hundred of billions just saying. "Trust us we will be nice now." I love it.
This sub hating China no matter what happens until prices rise?
I would have never guessed
"Just by more voo"
Ugh this place is tiring. But 5% is really good insights
Have you seen the Chinese economy, shanghai in lockdown, Beijing to follow soon. No way these companies are making money. This symposium is "stimulus" without actually spending money
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China - "Trust me bro, we support Big Tech"
Reddit laps this shit up
Judging from the top voted comments, redditors remain bearish. And they will continue to be bearish until the price recovers. Reddit's general sentiment about a company's prospects is based on the stock price and nothing more.
Reddit sentiments are all about rear view bias
Stocks go up - "told you so! hahaha dumb bears never win! to the moon baby!"
Stocks go down - "told you so! hahaha saw that bull trap from a mile away! should've sold while you had the chance!"
Reddit will be bull on Chinese stocks again when it's at all time high.
This is why you do the opposite of Reddit for investment advice.
My favorite is the posts from people saying "Never invest in China" while they are actually invested in a bunch of American companies that are heavily dependent on China like Apple, Nike, Boeing and soon Tesla.
Every comment in here is negative sentiment, there has been almost nothing but negative sentiment towards china for the last 6+ months. Are you stupid?
Seeing how everyone here is actually being bearish, I'd say it's a buy
100%.
Fundamentally a lot of companies in China are looking amazing. I sure as hell wouldn't short them.
I just don't want to ever own them because I could get fucked overnight with zero recourse by the CCP.
Yeah same, morally i dont want to either so that makes a lot of reasons why not, even if by other metrics its a good idea.
This is exactly the reason you should not invest in china. One day ccp decides to crack down on tech, three months later they deregulate.
I refuse to let my portfolio be goverbed by how xi is feeling when he gets up in the morning.
One day US electorate wakes up and decides they want a democrat and weed and clean energy boom....
Next day they want a Republican and private prisons booms....
One day Putin wakes up and decides to invade Ukraine. Oil booms...
One day senate wakes up and decides MSFT is a monopoly it goes boom...
Don't invest in anything because somebody may change their policies.
2 points here:
You over estimate american politics' ability to actually agree enough on anything to actually form a policy.
At least putin isnt WAR, no PEACE, NO WAR. And you know what youre working with. With xi, every day could be a new day.
Its about frequency, not the fact that they change policies. Not a year ago they decided to regulate tech. And now theyre deregulating already
China to End Big Tech Regulation and Support Big Tech
Wrong. Should read:
China to pump Big Tech again and support wealth transfer.
Only idiots are buying China. I'd rather make less money here than "buy" china stock.
Too many good US stocks at a discount right now, I hope the CCP pumps some more because my Nio bags are heavy but I'm not betting another dollar on them
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I have enough china exposure through my emerging markets index fund
Ghana, ivory coast, DRA, thailand, indonesia, Vietnam. Brasil. Loads of star potential there.
On the real though, Ghana, Indonesia and Vietnam are on the come-up.
Fucking China man. They change their minds so often I can see this being reversed in 6 months. Just like how they banned Bitcoin like 6 times.
Is China also adopting a rules based government and dropping the whole authoritarian, "we will disappear you" shtick?
lol of course not. Therefore these supposed changes mean nothing because they can, and probably will, be reversed with no notice whenever Xi feels like he needs to flex on Chinese billionaires again.
I'm done investing in China, they've proven they can't be trusted
Misleading title. The body of you message does t match the title. You say China will stop big tech regulation, but the body of your message says they are meeting to talk about regulations with The HOPE of ending regulation.
Even if they never have a single non-Chinese customer, the TAM for companies like BABA, Baidu, and JD remains enormous. And regardless of whatever CCP does, I don't see how any new competitor for these will emerge.
They should never have been allowed on the basis they dont let us enter their markets freely. Im sure there were plenty of traitors receiving bribes for us to ever have even gotten to this kind of situation over the years.
Looking at people in Reddit hating Chinese stocks with all about how bad CCP is, instead of fundamentals of the company. Conclusion: It's a great buy.
Sometimes that's all you need to know when the country can siphon money out of a business anytime with coerced "donation" or an arbitrary fine anytime. Never mind if it's a good business. Mafia leave you not dying, but not quite surviving either.
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A lot of them ARE great fundamentally.
Still not touching them. You have zero rights or assurances and will be fully subject to the whims of Xi.
I can make money without selling my soul. Sure corporations as a whole do some shady things. But china is on a whole different level. I don't need them
It is just me or more lockdowns are coming? Good news don't come just like this. Dont take me wrong I've a big position in China and already "made" some money. I plan to expand my position in the future but I way until the covid hits.
It's definitely not a good sign that the CCP is being so mercurial on big tech. It wasn't that long ago that they announced they were going to be cracking down even harder on it, now they're trying to ease up? They must really be desperate.
Fuck China though, I'm done investing in any Chinese companies. You've already proven you can't be trusted. Any country that can on a whim fuck over millions of investors with no recourse is a terrible place to invest
Since they last sent this same message, they cracked down on tech less than a week later.
That was a month ago.
Fuck Chinese stocks, these bastards have stolen enough from investors
And on top of that, the US trade envoy to China announced the US govt are dropping trade tariffs on Chinese goods (which had been introduced by Trump) in order to help reduce inflation.
How misleading could be this title.
It writes "China to End" and I'm thinking, wow that's some great news.
And I start reading and sayd there will be a meeting and this "raising hopes" to end the crackdown.
If whoever wrote this, cannot distinguish the difference between "somethings ends" and "raising hopes to end" then we have a big problem with our journalists.
Have you seen what they are doing to their people in the lock downs?
+2·12 days agoI'm in China. I know exactly what is going on. What does that have to do with policy support for Chinese Big Tech?
People have really derailed this thread…
Can't mention or have a healthy discussion in reddit about china though. Sadly. Too many people fishing for upvotes by just saying china bad. Still money to be made there imo. But ofc. Gotta do some DD and be aware of risks, just like in any market
I wouldn't put a dime in China. Considering they are communist and treat their people and the Uyghurs inhumanely.
Ooo boy, I sure hope you don't hold any of the major S&P companies who operate in China to reap the benefits of those sweet human rights violations
Bro everyone knows that you can't invest in a company unless you agree with everything the government of that country does /s
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I'm buying more baba! This is great news, but if you want to make money
+1·12 days ago·edited 12 days agoImagine they reverse their decision on btc only to have been accumulating this whole time lmao
I've an alternative investment to China. You see, in a series of rather unfortunate events I'm now the owner of this toll bridge....
Don't care. Never touching Chinese stocks until the day it's no longer a one-party country.
It should really come as no surprise. China wants to dominate technology and be the economic superpower.
The risk doesn't just go away because they have decided to pivot. The risk is permanent now because they have demonstrated that they can and will crack down at a moments notice. I don't know. It's a risky long term play with potentially huge upside, but I'd imagine it's going to be years until Chinese stocks don't trade at a discount to what their free market valuation would be. I've been considering BABA or just MCHI for a while.
Sadly the damage has been done. By simply threatening big tech, most investors will steer clear. Stupid leadership by CCP, threatening your own economy was one of the dumbest things they could've done.
None. You can't trust the CCP. Also why support China given all it does wrong?
I've read this twice in this year. I'm not reading this a third time.
Fool me once. Well that's enough fooling. I'm not falling for your bs China.
All China jokes aside, it would be nice if we did the same rather than try to fine and break up our tech firms.
haha i dont believe the ccp and xi a word, this can change any second
I will not invest a cent in a market that can be manipulated by a dictator at any time
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Nothing, I enjoy making money not throwing it down a bottomless hole which is what investing in a CCP controlled stockmarket is.
Looks like their batshit insane zero COVID policy is taking its toll.
Before investing in Chinese stocks ask yourself one question, can the Chinese government be trusted to stop kicking the shit out of companies like Alibaba and Didi? IMHO, the answer is a resounding NO.
They end regulation until the company does something they don't like and then suddenly, bam a crackdown. I wouldn't trust China with any of my money. I mean looked what happened to Ma. One moment he's on top of the world. The next, he just more or less disappears.
I'm done with China. Investing in China made me root for them and their economy, I'm not interested in rooting for the prosperity of a communist country.
Fool me once, shame on ... shame on you ! You fool me .. you can't get fooled again !
But yeah, ended up being a BABA bagholder - sold at a big loss. FU China. Not coming back.
Nah I'll never invest in china if I can avoid it. Risk is to high. Who the hell knows what china will have decided or done this time next year.
At this point, is China any more reliable than North Korea when it comes to their words?
I mean China has been very reliable in some areas when it comes to the words. China told DiDi NOT to list and it did. Look what happens. China says it will change the private tutoring landscape because it hurts its people; China then proceeded a few months later destroying private for profit tutoring firms. China tells it will crackdown on big tech; then it does. China claims it is near end of big tech crackdown; now Xi says personally the tech crackdown is done.
If anything, Western investors (including us) are extremely naive to try to hand wave what China says. If China says "X", then it IS X. No hand wavey or whatever. Zero covid policy? Then zero covid policy it is (dumb policy for 2022). And so on.
China should tell their hand-puppet putin to calm down with nuclear rhetoric. Because if putin will fire nukes, no-one will need chinese tech.
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." GW
We pinky promise this time guys, really. Ignore this happening on an almost weekly basis.
So NIO and XPEV going back up? I'd love to close those fucking positions
some of these chinese tech company stocks have had a lot of calls flow into them even when the market is going to shit
I'm 100% all-in China tech now, Chinese Yuan to USD just hit 1 year low, the government is going to stimulate to reach the 5.5% GDP goal. They have already experienced a 2-year de-leveraging of real estate and consumer debt, resulting in one of the worst stock market performances of all time.
While in the west we are just beginning the deleveraging cycle. China stocks today are what oil stocks were in 2020
The very moment the CCP feels threatened by these companies again is the day they nuke them again. Xi thanks greedy westerners chasing a few shekels and then repeatedly robbing them.
Let you to invest I'm in here. No need for me to delve into some foreign feudalistic bullshit when there's plenty of ways to loose money closer to home in industries that I can actually read the reports in my own language.
to loose money
*lose
Learn the difference here.
Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply !optout to this comment.
Just clumsy thumbs bot, go back and play with your Russian friends
If they used a vaccine that worked, that might help support their tech slaves. But you can't argue with fascist authoritarians.
Big money to be made off Chinese stocks some day, but I'm waiting until there are no more videos of people in white hazmat suits throwing other people into cages. Doesn't convey a lot of confidence in the market.
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